I also think we are done here as convincing the other is unlikely. Although I’d like to respond to this:

BTW, even in a capitalistic system, nobody is forced to work for anyone. This you cannot disprove. All choices are available under a system of liberty and freedom. Capital is not required to make a living. Don’t lecture me on this. I’ve been penniless and I’ve been well off, and haven’t worked for anybody else in forty years.

This is demonstrably false. Unless you have capital (real or financial) you must sell your labor in order to survive. You can ‘choose’ to starve, but that’s not a ‘choice’ in any meaningful sense.

When you were penniless, I assume you worked to make a living and accumulate capital for yourself. I do not doubt you worked hard, but worked ‘for’ someone nonetheless. I believe you mentioned that you ran/run a small business. This would only be possible after some capital accumulation. In Marx’s terms, this would make you ‘petty-bourgeois’ as you are self employed, employ others, but still must work to survive.

It sounds like the American Dream worked out for you, and in no small part due to your own effort. But this is increasingly anomalous as social mobility decreases. Class has become increasingly rigid as wealth inequality deepens.

My own goal is to ‘exit’ the working class at some point via capital accumulation (mainly my 401k/Roth IRA) and become a ‘capitalist’ myself. But this is simply not possible for millions of Americans living paycheck to paycheck, with little or nothing left to retire on.

Corporate accountant and former auditor with degrees in philosophy and accounting.

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